Author Topic: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?  (Read 2876 times)

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Offline X_A

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I was reading on caliburforum.com - and saw mention of LCD's needing at least 8ms or better to avoid lag...

...is this true?

With Black Friday close to upon us, and well, the rumor that LCD's are going to be dropping, more and more people may look into purchasing monitors to travel with to events, etc.  I'd like to get the facts straight so we can have an informed decision for tournaments, as well as players.  If anyone has info - let's get going.



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Offline Furyswrath

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Re: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 01:23:38 am »

I was reading on caliburforum.com - and saw mention of LCD's needing at least 8ms or better to avoid lag...

...is this true?

With Black Friday close to upon us, and well, the rumor that LCD's are going to be dropping, more and more people may look into purchasing monitors to travel with to events, etc.  I'd like to get the facts straight so we can have an informed decision for tournaments, as well as players.  If anyone has info - let's get going.



X A



Its true to certain extents.  You would have to be super picky and super anal.. (can i say that? if i cant mod it please.) to notice the lag.  8ms or less has been the standard on refresh on LCD's  I have on that is 10ms and i honestly cant tell the difference between that and my 5ms LCD.  Now I have an OLD OLD LCD-TV that has a 15 ms refresh and if you watch an action movie.  it smears and shadows during fast paced scenes.   So unless you have a super keen eye then id say 8ms is good,  but like i said I have on LCD thats a 10 and i cant see anything lag wise.

The 2 New 26" LCD TVs i just bought for the Plasma Burn Tourney dont say what the refresh is. But ive played movies on it and played SCIV and I saw no Ghosting or tearing. so They gotta be 8ms or better.   On sale 26" LCD Dynex (cheap brand) for 379 each.

Offline godmode

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Re: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 01:08:30 pm »
X_A,

If possible, check out a flatscreen monitor. They have virtually no screen lag, at all, but can be set to even the highest of definitions. :P


I personally play on a 19 inch widescreen HP. Timmy and them have played on it, a lot of people have seen it, and as far as shooters go, I have seen no problems, ever.

There are multiple ways to connect it, also:

1. HDMI cord + HDMI to DVI converter on one end.
2. Xbox VGA cord. < This is what I use.

Offline DrWalterrr

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Re: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 07:32:19 pm »

I was reading on caliburforum.com - and saw mention of LCD's needing at least 8ms or better to avoid lag...

...is this true?

With Black Friday close to upon us, and well, the rumor that LCD's are going to be dropping, more and more people may look into purchasing monitors to travel with to events, etc.  I'd like to get the facts straight so we can have an informed decision for tournaments, as well as players.  If anyone has info - let's get going.



X A


i have the viewsonic that mlg uses in all there events and games, i think it has 5ms and i have a vga cord with it it took me about a week to get used to the lag... and if you go from tube to that you notice the lag in halo and any game, thats why everyone wants to play them before the event to get used to it... i would say that anything below 5ms would be good for gaming otherwise you will get more lag...

Offline attrezzop

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Re: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 12:16:16 pm »

I was reading on caliburforum.com - and saw mention of LCD's needing at least 8ms or better to avoid lag...

...is this true?

With Black Friday close to upon us, and well, the rumor that LCD's are going to be dropping, more and more people may look into purchasing monitors to travel with to events, etc.  I'd like to get the facts straight so we can have an informed decision for tournaments, as well as players.  If anyone has info - let's get going.



X A



8ms is nothing to complain about. Back in the day LCDs were only running at 20ms refresh rate, which translates to roughly 50hz CRT refresh rate. 8ms translates to 125hz!!!

These are roughly the same measurement without getting too technical. I know some will say they're not a direct comparison and that's somewhat true but it's about as close as you get. Motion problems start happening around (blurring etc) 20-25ms, to get rid of eyestrain you're talking at lease 12ms, so 8ms is pretty nice.

You might want to make sure to set your "refresh rate" under the monitor properties to something higher than 72hz otherwise you won't fully benefit from the 8ms response anyway. To do this go to Display Settings | Settings tab | Advanced | Monitor tab.

Pretty much any LCD monitor you see now will far outgun a CRT unless the CRT is really nice and the LCD is cheap and shoddy. With LCDs you have some clear benefits, brightness will be much better than a CRT, contrast is comparable, and refresh rates are now better. The downside is if you get a cheap one the colors aren't quite as rich as high-end CRTs.

The main thing you want to be really careful to watch out for is INTERLACED or 1080/720/540i monitors/TVs. You want to be absolutely sure what you get is an all digital LCD (HDMI/DVI input) that can support a progressive refresh. If you don't what you end up with is a choppy picture and blocky looking motion. Monitors should pretty much all be progressive, but they don't always advertise it one way or the other on those so I'd want to see the sucker on before I bought it. TVs however are advertized as 1080, 720, or 540 p or i and you want p. 720p is better than 1080i in every way imaginable as far as picture quality so don't waste your time or money with a 1080i tv.

The deal is that the circuitry for running analog-digital interlace is cheaper than the same equipment for progressive scan. Long story short, we're at a point between analog and digital video where most devices are made to support analog AND digital. In order to do this manufacturers cut a lot of corners. So look at it before you buy it is the best advice.

The short answer to your question: 8ms is probably better than the CRT you currently have, look out for color clarity, you want a monitor or a progressive tv - no exceptions, and you should try to see it in use before you buy it.

 

Here I am on der myspazenhousen.

Offline attrezzop

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Re: Tube to Flat Screen Tournaments - what are the minimum specs to avoid lag?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 12:23:45 pm »

Its true to certain extents.  You would have to be super picky and super anal.. (can i say that? if i cant mod it please.) to notice the lag.  8ms or less has been the standard on refresh on LCD's  I have on that is 10ms and i honestly cant tell the difference between that and my 5ms LCD.  Now I have an OLD OLD LCD-TV that has a 15 ms refresh and if you watch an action movie.  it smears and shadows during fast paced scenes.   So unless you have a super keen eye then id say 8ms is good,  but like i said I have on LCD thats a 10 and i cant see anything lag wise.

The 2 New 26" LCD TVs i just bought for the Plasma Burn Tourney dont say what the refresh is. But ive played movies on it and played SCIV and I saw no Ghosting or tearing. so They gotta be 8ms or better.   On sale 26" LCD Dynex (cheap brand) for 379 each.


Just so you know, ghosting and tearing are partly refresh rate and partly interlace/progressive scan methods.
If I could make a hasty generalization I'd say nearly any TV made in 2008+ that's progressive won't have these problems. It'll just get better as time goes on because the issues are largely to do with cutting corners to make and analog/digital Frankenstein before there was a good supply line for the components necessary to do it right.


1. HDMI cord + HDMI to DVI converter on one end.
2. Xbox VGA cord. < This is what I use.

I'd avoid VGA if you can. If you've got a digital output, it's best to use it because you skip all the analog->digital conversion steps. This can lead to a better picture, and would certainly lead to less headaches in the future.


//Gets up on a soapbox

Why don't they advertise clearly on a monitor if the DVI input is fully digital or analog/digital? Better yet I wish there was a way to FORCE dual-link DVI mode so you'd know that you weren't wasting precious electrons on a analog->digital conversion. Phewt, Marketing people!

//Gets off of soapbox
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 12:29:09 pm by attrezzop »

Here I am on der myspazenhousen.