Author Topic: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?  (Read 6515 times)

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Offline X_A

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SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« on: August 06, 2010, 02:57:58 pm »

MK - MetaKnight - the favorite among tournament winners... lol

He seems to be killing the community.  What should we do?


Here's what I will say.  As a TO - I love keeping a fair balanced playing field for both locals and out of towners; easier for locals to travel, easier to support our communities in our region by hosting events they feel safe to attend.

However.  If MK is KILLING your community, what's the purpose of staying with a non-ban position?  What is the point of encouraging a bad call?

It seems like the people running the SSBB community don't review tournament results, or are lazy MK players, and don't want to lose their meal tickets?  Maybe they all just want to kill SSBB so they can go back to Melee?  I don't know, all speculation.

What I do know: is OK has seen lower turn outs for a game that should have way more value, with players quiting sighting the ease of MK, and the lack of interest in converting.  I don't want to let our community die off totally without trying to help in any way we can. 

We haven't put it to an official poll - so that is what this is.  Weigh in, you have 2 weeks to make your stance heard.


What will this effect?  OKgamers volunteer TO staff's decision.  If we go MK ban, anything we organize for the SSBB community or work with events to do - MK would be banned.  HxC and other businesses locally might take it up, dunno. 

OKgamers TO's volunteer to throw and work with events to get the word out about OKgamers.com - it starts a cycle of gamers finding out about their local communities and events.  If the communities die off, we lose our audience and part of the source of information for the site - we don't benefit, and neither do they.  We'll do what we can to help where we can.



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Offline FLIP17

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 03:29:00 pm »
This is all I'm going to say...

If we ban MK I will play Brawl again!


Offline Chozo

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 04:30:56 pm »
MK isn't really that much of a problem. It's more of an obstacle to overcome than an unstoppable force that must be banned. There are so many scrubby MKs that think they can pick up a free win with him, but don't actually know all of the details of the character. If you're really that worried about MK, go Snake. He's much easier to pick up and beat MK with than MK is to pick up and beat anyone with.
Also, if you're only worried about MK, why not just ban RC? What other character is gonna miss it? Kirby? Delphino is a five-star Kirby stage. ZSS just takes heavies there, but there are plenty of other CP's she could use. When your ruleset (http://www.okgamers.com/pdf/ssbb-rules.pdf) already has twenty-four stages banned, what's one more? Get rid of that stage, and I can guarantee you'll see less people just choosing MK after losing a game to pick up a free win. If MK planks excessively, just have a TO come over to take a look. If they're really abusing the ledge, then it's stalling.
MK isn't killing the community, apathy is.
Personally, I don't think you should ban anything without reason. Simply being "gay" doesn't warrant a ban.
I don't think that a character should ever be banned without solid reasoning. Someone give a reason to ban MK.

Offline Typ_EX

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 11:39:12 am »
banning MK would kill most OOS showings.

Offline FLIP17

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2010, 10:59:01 pm »
But on the other hand... MK is the very reason I quit playing... as for all of the Morrris Community... Now we play SSF4, SC4, and BB:CS


Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 04:50:34 am »
as for all of the Morrris Community... Now we play SSF4, SC4, and BB:CS

REAL games right there

Offline Bees McGee

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 10:14:01 pm »

REAL games right there

watch it, you'll get yelled at

Offline X_A

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 04:09:43 pm »

Chozo - I'm not sure your familiar enough with the tournament scene?  Or I'm misreading your statements?  It's not about "being gay" - what its' about is hard facts, numbers, and reality - MK ruins the game on many levels.  The only way he remains an "option" in a game about mixups?  Is the NUCLEAR option.  And once one person goes there, if the other wants to win, they go there too.  It happens over and over again - and why shouldn't it?  The current refined style of MK play is to the point when played out non-agressively, and metered, the opponents don't seem to have a chance.  Every major event I've heard of lately - MK vs MK is finals, I know Supercon was.  MK isn't a trend, he's a blight on the community, and it's choking out the people who cared.

banning MK would kill most OOS showings.

The OOS crowd hasn't shown up to the last 3 or so OKgamers "staff" events, why should I care?  :)

Seriously though, it is a concern, the All is Brawl people as well as some other NVGA types were in a meeting, and I brought this up - they suggested a "amateur" approach - and have pro and non-pro tournaments.  If we are switching to gatherings over tournaments though, meh, maybe this discussion won't need to happen till closer to Jan, or Feb? 


Here's another angle though Typ EX that I'm considering - that I don't think OOS and your community has REALLY taken to heart:

YOU ARE KILLING YOUR LOCALS BY MK NOT BEING BANNED - who cares if we ban him - if we save the community in the process.  Slowly killing your base off to keep MK around is literally like cutting off your nose to spite your face - it just makes no sense.


I'm saddened that there isn't more of a discussion happening here.  I appreciate Chozo stepping in and giving his thoughts, but 5 votes, and a few posts makes me think no one cares, maybe we should just do whatever is obviously good for the local community?



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Offline Furyswrath

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 04:24:24 pm »
Based on everything I've read in magazines, and other boards. MK can be beaten. And I've only seen one other area that bans MK that's Tennessee hills area. But from a national stand point MK is a love hate relationship. More like do ya like Ford's or Chevy's.  I feel we should keep MK so we are on a level playing field with te rest of the U.S. man up and defeat the challenge. Obviously people have or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Offline Furyswrath

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 04:29:44 pm »
I also wanted to add this.. I had said this in the Staff email.
Quote
I'll put my 2 cents in. Ssbb is bigger than just Oklahoma and we should abide by whats deamed standard.  If we get off base from standards we have no chance at national tournaments. Nor will other states reconize Oklahoma as a fierce competitor If we go around banning characters just because of a small percent of the community feels it is an unfair toon.


Offline Bees McGee

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 11:01:57 pm »
i think you should stick by the national standard as well, just because if other people put up with it, so can oklahoma. you aren't all Amerindians, you don't get special rules

you need to make it an incentive to not play him. if someone wins with MK, slap them for every dollar they earned, or rub a greasy pizza all over them

or put peanut butter on the roof of their mouth

don't you hate it when that happens

Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 01:24:42 pm »
Well I was going to argue the Smash and MK thing, in favor of keeping MK, with the SC4 examples but realized that SC4 is relatively dead in comparison to BRawl still so it would be fruitless.

Offline Xerit

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 09:41:17 pm »
I also quit because of MK.

Its not that he can't be beaten its that hes too good in comparison to the rest of the cast. If  the MK player wants to win, all he has to do is play more campy and gay than his opponent and he has all the tools to win the match. Stage and opposing character are completely irrelevant and only change just how much the match is in his favor.

Offline Chozo

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 09:59:09 am »
X_A, it's funny that you mention SuperCon, considering that most of the big-name players who showed up were in fact MK mains. My brother and I talked to M2K in their livestream chat after he won the event, and even he doesn't think that MK is unbeatable (although he may be biased here). There are several MK counters, such as any of the spacies or Diddy. But of course there aren't enough MK counters, giving any MK players a serious advantage. Also, take a look at the MK boards: http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=147
They're pretty inactive. They don't even have a proper MU thread. They took a month and a half to discuss the Snake MU in the newest one, only to come to the same conclusion as previously--55:45. There isn't even a write-up accompanying it. MK players don't bother learning the game, they just use MK and abuse his awesomeness. If more people would just go learn their MUs, with a little in-game experience they could beat all of those players who only get by on the fact that they're using MK.
I do understand your point about the best players picking up MK, and the rest of the best picking him up to counter the other top players. Let me list off the top Oklahoma players I know of:
Bassem -- Wario
Typ_EX -- Falco
Afrotastic -- Snake
Chuck Nasty -- MK
Now, I'm more familiar with the national scene, ♥♥♥♥♥ even the Texas scene, than I am with the Oklahoma scene, but that's why I'm here--to get more involved with my own state's players. Anyway, out of those four, I see one MK. I don't know what the scene in Tulsa looks like, but as far as I know the only MKs of repute in OKC are Lil Will and Deezy. I would love to come to the next Tulsa event and see what kind of players you guys have, because it sounds like you have a lot of MKs. Either that, or you just have a few who use him and are really good. Either way, I can't say anything about the OK scene because I wouldn't know what I was talking about.

Also, I have to say, I agree with furyswaith's point. I do know of one other place that bans MK though--Idaho. How many players do you know of from Idaho? Zero? Me too. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3370048
Congrats, now you know five, although you'll probably forget them within the hour.
I know Xyro has held some MK-banned tourneys in Houston as well, but he's just butthurt because he uses Samus and ROB.

If the rest of the nation and all major tournaments play with MK, then is it really fair to our players to not let them get MK experience? OK is barely on the map as it is, despite the fact that we have some good players with potential. If you don't let players learn to fight MK, what are they going to do if they want to go to a tournament in Kansas, Texas, Arkansas, or Missouri.
If you plan on hosting smaller local get-togethers/friendly tourneys, try out the MK-ban and see how it goes. If the same players win or place well, then MK might not be the problem.

X_A, you're the main TO of Tulsa, you're gonna do what you feel is best for your community and I'll respect your decision, but I really hope you don't ban MK.

Offline X_A

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 06:00:36 pm »
X_A, you're the main TO of Tulsa, you're gonna do what you feel is best for your community and I'll respect your decision, but I really hope you don't ban MK.


The problem is I'm also one of the leaders of OKgamers, and businesses around OK watch OKgamers rules for standards...

...which is why it's not just up to me - it's really got to be community driven.


I'm sorry - from my PERSONAL beliefs - MK is killing the SSBB community, and the only ones left after the damage totals out will be MK players, and a few hardcore.  I've gotten that from talking to players, etc etc...

However - almost like abuse victims - when I ask those who complain to stand up, I get nothing, other than a few votes, and Xerit did at least post lol.


SO?  NEVERMIND.  A TO is against it, Norman seems against it, and Tulsa / surrounding cities that complain - are not standing up for themselves.  If there isn't massive uprising to back the massive complaining, I'm not breaking standards. 

Don't complain to me about MK again, unless you've got the majority of players ready to show up and do something about it.


...NEXT conversation - that HORRIBLE SBR NEW RULE SET?!  REALLY - those stages.  Are you guys crazy?



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