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General and OKgamers.com => Articles and Reviews => : makosira April 17, 2008, 11:12:09 PM

: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 17, 2008, 11:12:09 PM
***I copied and pasted this all from a topic on Scorehero, and this came from the MLG forums***
*****Also, any famous youtubers or bloggers or anything, please spread this if you care. Maybe just post a one minute video telling people about it and put a link to sign the petition in the "More Info" section.*****

For those who don't feel like reading everything related to net neutrality, here's some information regarding an aspect of it you may be interested in: online gaming.

Per the ECA
"Without Net Neutrality, your Internet Service Provider is free to charge you extra for playing World of Warcraft, to interfere with Xbox Live, or to completely shut off your ability to access your favorite Web sites. Net Neutrality affects your entire online experience!"


Per Ramp Rate
"What will be murdered with no fallback or replacement is the nascent market of interactive entertainment ? particularly online gaming. Companies like Blizzard Entertainment, Electronic Arts, Sony Online Entertainment, and countless others, have built a business on the fundamental assumption of relatively low latency bandwidth being available to large numbers of consumers. Furthermore, a large - even overwhelming - portion of the value of these offerings comes from their "network effects" - the tendency for the game to become more enjoyable and valuable as larger number of players joins the gaming network."

"With the permanent barriers that the removal of net neutrality will erect for these uses, the worst-case scenario includes three waves of change:

* One or more mainstream ISPs will introduce excessive lag that will effectively prohibit their users from participating in online games. The move will not be aimed at restricting usage per se, but rather to extract a fee from the game operator. However, as the Cablevision and YES dispute of 2002 showed us4, a fee disagreement between a cable company and content provider can effectively lock out the use of a popular service for over a year;

* As online gaming guilds, clans, and partners disappear into the rifts created in the Internet fabric, players that derive value from the community of the game rather than the playing experience per se will drop off. This vicious cycle of scarcity of users will lead to diminished enjoyment for existing users which will lead to still fewer users, until more games follow Asheron's Call to oblivion;
* Hardcore users will write strongly worded messages to their ISPs, who will classify them as
unreasonable malcontents using more than their share of bandwidth."

"For those who think this cannot happen, here's a recent example: For years before the Web as we know it existed, Usenet was a core part of the Internet landscape. It was a factory for online discussion, exchange of ideas, and, ultimately, one of the better bulletin boards for content of all shapes and forms. However, as the Internet became mainstream, Usenet users were marginalized (typically with "cease and desist" letters citing excessive use of "unlimited" internet packages). Their Usenet services were then unceremoniously dumped by their providers (AOL and Comcast being two of the more notorious)."

"Where there was a substitute for Usenet through services such as Google or BitTorrent, there is no close substitute for online gaming. Killing off these blossoming networks, with their own economies (potentially taxable when converted into real-world cash, would result in drastic, irreparable harm to consumers, technology developers, the economy and tax revenue - and even the ISPs themselves."
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 17, 2008, 11:12:35 PM
Net Neutrality and You (Must Read)

Per Wikipedia, network neutrality (equivalently net neutrality, Internet neutrality or simply NN) refers to a principle that is applied to residential broadband networks, and potentially to all networks. Precise definitions vary, but a broadband network free of restrictions on the kinds of equipment that may be attached, on the modes of communication allowed, which does not restrict content, sites or platforms, and where communication is not unreasonably degraded by other communication streams, would be considered neutral by most observers.

To be more clear on the matter, per Save the Internet net neutrality means no discrimination. Net Neutrality prevents Internet providers from speeding up or slowing down Web content based on its source, ownership or destination. Net Neutrality is the reason why the Internet has driven economic innovation, democratic participation, and free speech online. It protects the consumer's right to use any equipment, content, application or service on a non-discriminatory basis without interference from the network provider. With Net Neutrality, the network's only job is to move data -- not choose which data to privilege with higher quality service.

This is an issue for everyone involved with any aspect related to the internet. It directly influences the gaming world as well the general surfing world. In regards to who is trying to strip us of this principle, per Save the Internet the nation's largest telephone and cable companies -- including AT&T, Verizon, Comcast and Time Warner -- want to be Internet gatekeepers, deciding which Web sites go fast or slow and which won't load at all. They want to tax content providers to guarantee speedy delivery of their data. They want to discriminate in favor of their own search engines, Internet phone services, and streaming video -- while slowing down or blocking their competitors. These companies have a new vision for the Internet. Instead of an even playing field, they want to reserve express lanes for their own content and services -- or those from big corporations that can afford the steep tolls -- and leave the rest of us on a winding dirt road. The big phone and cable companies are spending hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress and the Federal Communications Commission to gut Net Neutrality, putting the future of the Internet at risk.

Since current cable companies are currently receiving no mislawful consequences for violating this principle, I personally have been experiencing the effects of it because I am a Comcast customer. As some may know, I am an active poster in the Anime/Manga Discussion thread of the OT. As such, I was informed of and have been using mIRC to download fansubbed episodes for both myself and my wife to watch. However, in the past month or so, Comcast has been killing my connection as I download via mIRC. I reach speeds, on average, of around 300-700 kb/s. At around, on average, 10-25% of the download Comcast cuts my connection for a period of 30 minutes. A simple reset of my connection via restarting my computer fixes the problem. However, it's consistent and happens 9/10 when I try to download via mIRC.

Please help fight the telephone and cable companies trying to removal this principle by signing the
Save the Internet Petition. Don't let them take away our complete internet freedom.


Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality
http://www.savetheinternet.com/
http://www.freepress.net/files/nn_fact_v_fiction_final.pdf
http://gamepolitics.com/2008/03/04/comcast-packs-net-neutrality-hearing-with-paid-ringers/
http://www.ramprate.com/marketcommentary/neutrality.php

(Would be helpful if I knew how to hyperlink, but I don't...)
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 18, 2008, 01:52:28 PM
i dont have to worry about it since my internet is the best.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: Rislone April 18, 2008, 04:02:12 PM
i dont have to worry about it since my internet is the best.

I think you fail to recognize what this means. Telecom industries want to charge more because network users are using their lines to transmit info and they don't get more out of it then they want. If this comes to pass then that means no matter what ISP you use your going to get the bad end of the stick.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 18, 2008, 04:04:06 PM
Wow Mako, that's a lot of useful info.  Well put man.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 18, 2008, 04:29:48 PM
Wow Mako, that's a lot of useful info.  Well put man.

I was just wandering along the Scorehero forums at the time, and at first I didn't read it fully and skimmed it because I didn't think anything of it, but seeing replies to it caused me to go back and /really/ read it. Thought that since this is a pure gaming forum for any kind, and alot of people use the internet for the use of gaming, that this would be quite important to spread word about. :) I think I'm going to go figure a way to get the file link posted here.

Edit: The freepress.net file link is now up, and it works. Take a look at that too.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 18, 2008, 11:20:28 PM
i dont have to worry about it since my internet is the best.

I think you fail to recognize what this means. Telecom industries want to charge more because network users are using their lines to transmit info and they don't get more out of it then they want. If this comes to pass then that means no matter what ISP you use your going to get the bad end of the stick.
my internet isnt with a telecom or a middle man that why mine is the best.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: TH3 R3LIGION April 19, 2008, 01:37:36 AM
i dont have to worry about it since my internet is the best.

I think you fail to recognize what this means. Telecom industries want to charge more because network users are using their lines to transmit info and they don't get more out of it then they want. If this comes to pass then that means no matter what ISP you use your going to get the bad end of the stick.
my internet isnt with a telecom or a middle man that why mine is the best.


You are just flat out a complete and total idiot i wish you would stop posting
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 19, 2008, 01:39:11 AM
i dont have to worry about it since my internet is the best.

I think you fail to recognize what this means. Telecom industries want to charge more because network users are using their lines to transmit info and they don't get more out of it then they want. If this comes to pass then that means no matter what ISP you use your going to get the bad end of the stick.
my internet isnt with a telecom or a middle man that why mine is the best.

YEAH buddy unless you create your own internet then there is no way that this cant happen to you this can happen to anyone all they have to do is limit your bandwidth there you go trust me, and what is your ISP and i bet i can point out every flaw that they have trust me there is not good ISP in the US compared to those in europe and some parts of asia....
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 19, 2008, 09:46:01 PM
i got fiber optic 20mb up 20mb down.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 19, 2008, 09:57:39 PM
i got fiber optic 20mb up 20mb down.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand you still don't quite understand this, do you?
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 19, 2008, 10:00:50 PM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 19, 2008, 10:45:01 PM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.

Yeah, you don't understand this.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 19, 2008, 11:55:33 PM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.

Who do you pay for your internet?
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 20, 2008, 01:24:46 AM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 20, 2008, 02:55:27 AM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
not mine they cant
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 20, 2008, 08:16:50 AM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
not mine they cant

OHMYGOD!

Just stop trying to make him understand. It's obvious he's not going to understand it, so it's useless trying.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: TH3 R3LIGION April 20, 2008, 10:09:01 AM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
not mine they cant

OHMYGOD!

Just stop trying to make him understand. It's obvious he's not going to understand it, so it's useless trying.


He is a moron, i wish we could just ban him, it would make me soooooo happy
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 20, 2008, 12:19:07 PM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
not mine they cant

OHMYGOD!

Just stop trying to make him understand. It's obvious he's not going to understand it, so it's useless trying.


He is a moron, i wish we could just ban him, it would make me soooooo happy

Wow. You remind me of an admin on a forum I go too. It's hilarious.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: TH3 R3LIGION April 20, 2008, 01:39:25 PM
I think I just speak for everyone when i say the things i do, he just posts stuff and doesnt have a firm grip on reality
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 20, 2008, 05:58:42 PM
i guess im the only one safe from them slowing down your downloads.


WOW you do not understand how netowrking works nor have you read this and i know that for a fact because i know that your not smart enough to create your own internet and even if you do have fiber optics running through your house ( talking about 100s of dollars worth of work) it doesnt even matter if you have what you have they can still limit your connection with ease...so please just shut up

kthxbai
not mine they cant

Ok dude.  Just answer my f'n question.   WHO DO YOU PAY FOR YOUR INTERNET SERVICE??  We'll do this one step at at a time so that you understand.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 20, 2008, 06:08:41 PM
rsi
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 20, 2008, 11:01:24 PM
rsi
yeah im sorry but a small company based out of Seminole is not going to provide you with fiber optics...
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 21, 2008, 12:30:07 AM
rsi
yeah im sorry but a small company based out of Seminole is not going to provide you with fiber optics...
i get 20mb upload and 20mb download speeds
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 21, 2008, 07:45:05 AM
lol i doubt you even know what your talking about thats my only issue because you seem to think you can get fiber optics from a small company but you do have broadband you have the same freaking thing as everyone else here. your running on cable from a  company like that so please shut up.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 21, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Ok.  The issue is not with the capabilities of the technology that you're using.  The idea is that in a lot of cases you aren't going to be able to use the full capacity of your bandwidth, because the people you pay for your internet(RSI or whatever) are limiting how much bandwidth can be used for certain applications.  It's not rocket science, and NOONE(except maybe the CEO's of these companies) can avoid it.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 21, 2008, 09:11:50 PM
i can upgrade to 50mb download and 20mb upload if i wanted to but this is enough for me to start my xbox live marketplace hd videos when they first begin to download.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 21, 2008, 09:36:20 PM
hahahaha dude i know for a fact that there not going to offer that they dont even have a website....there a small wireless company out of seminole im sorry but i dont think youll even get an 8 mbps connection out of that im sorry....but you dont know what your talking about at all....
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 21, 2008, 09:46:25 PM
im talking about my internet speed having 20mb download speed. your opinion will never be fact
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: DarkWraith56 April 21, 2008, 09:50:12 PM
seriously man prove it take a screen shot of a speed tester with ok gamers in the back ground WITH YOUR PROFILE up then well believe you until you do that nobody here will believe a word you say no matter what you do......
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 22, 2008, 03:55:15 PM
and even if he could get a high speed at a certain time really doesn't mean anything.  This entire thread is about the fact that your ISP could choose to limit your connection to any particular server(s).  So you can pump 20mbps all day browsing websites(so long as they are sending information that fast), but if your ISP decides that it's "wasting" too much bandwidth on internet gaming they can limit your speed in order to preserve it for other uses.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: slipknot0129 April 22, 2008, 04:24:28 PM
they probably can but i see the bigger companies like comcast and att doing it before they do mine.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: unholyk001 aid April 22, 2008, 04:35:08 PM
well AT&T users should be fine on connections to live, since i hear that Microsoft bought yahoo =)
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 22, 2008, 05:19:39 PM
lol, I guess it can work both ways.  Maybe they will take bandwidth from internet porn and save it for live haha
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: uNlimited April 22, 2008, 07:27:18 PM
lol see ya later porn addicts  :D
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: unholyk001 aid April 22, 2008, 07:38:53 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: SkizsM420 April 24, 2008, 05:40:27 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...

Correction--Porn WAS for horny old men.  Thanks to the internet it's for horny old anyone.  Besides ISPs will probably save more bandwidth for that because internet porn is probably a lot more lucrative than xbl.   That's why you can start a strip club and it will be a big hit, but if you start a LAN center, chances are fair that business won't be too steady for too long.  Sad but true(Pervs have more clout than gamers lol)
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: unholyk001 aid April 24, 2008, 07:00:10 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...

Correction--Porn WAS for horny old men.  Thanks to the internet it's for horny old anyone.  Besides ISPs will probably save more bandwidth for that because internet porn is probably a lot more lucrative than xbl.   That's why you can start a strip club and it will be a big hit, but if you start a LAN center, chances are fair that business won't be too steady for too long.  Sad but true(Pervs have more clout than gamers lol)
which is EXTREMELY sad beacuse...they need to get out of their mom's basement/ buy a hooker/ find that one chick thats WWAAAAAAAAAY to drunk.
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: makosira April 24, 2008, 07:19:03 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...

Correction--Porn WAS for horny old men.  Thanks to the internet it's for horny old anyone.  Besides ISPs will probably save more bandwidth for that because internet porn is probably a lot more lucrative than xbl.   That's why you can start a strip club and it will be a big hit, but if you start a LAN center, chances are fair that business won't be too steady for too long.  Sad but true(Pervs have more clout than gamers lol)
which is EXTREMELY sad beacuse...they need to get out of their mom's basement/ buy a hooker/ find that one chick thats WWAAAAAAAAAY to drunk.

I think this went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic. :-\
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: TH3 R3LIGION April 24, 2008, 07:33:14 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...

Correction--Porn WAS for horny old men.  Thanks to the internet it's for horny old anyone.  Besides ISPs will probably save more bandwidth for that because internet porn is probably a lot more lucrative than xbl.   That's why you can start a strip club and it will be a big hit, but if you start a LAN center, chances are fair that business won't be too steady for too long.  Sad but true(Pervs have more clout than gamers lol)
which is EXTREMELY sad beacuse...they need to get out of their mom's basement/ buy a hooker/ find that one chick thats WWAAAAAAAAAY to drunk.

I think this went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic. :-\

Gamers have the attention span of crack addicted squirrels
: Re: Net Neutrality (or whatever it's called)
: unholyk001 aid April 24, 2008, 07:37:50 PM
lol, porn is for horny old men =P

I play xbox live, thats like me watching 13 hours of pr0n in a row...

Correction--Porn WAS for horny old men.  Thanks to the internet it's for horny old anyone.  Besides ISPs will probably save more bandwidth for that because internet porn is probably a lot more lucrative than xbl.   That's why you can start a strip club and it will be a big hit, but if you start a LAN center, chances are fair that business won't be too steady for too long.  Sad but true(Pervs have more clout than gamers lol)
which is EXTREMELY sad beacuse...they need to get out of their mom's basement/ buy a hooker/ find that one chick thats WWAAAAAAAAAY to drunk.

I think this went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic. :-\

Gamers have the attention span of crack addicted squirrels
i prefer to think of it as opium, not crack.