Author Topic: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)  (Read 17285 times)

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Offline Solidus

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2010, 05:46:06 pm »
3d fighters are fine and have been for a long time.  And I hate when people say DMC fighting style as a fighter, if people think about that then you have FF Dissidia, that's what the game would turn out to be.  Dissidia is fun but seriously lacking in any way for tournament style play.

Have you played DMC? It is nothing like Dissidia...in the slightest really. I'm saying the basic control scheme and combo setups provide great potential for controlling characters in 3D. Current 3D fighters try to be hybrid fighters where most of the time you fight on a 2D plane and reach your appendages through the Z axis periodically for mixup. The control feels immature comparably to 2D fighters, but 2D fighters have had many years to grow. 3D Fighters are still in their infancy, I would say they are only recently exiting the 3D equivalent phase of  "Street Fighter Alpha 2" BB/GG or Versus style elements haven't even begun to penetrate 3D yet, combos or short, slow, and clunky in even the best 3D fighters. SC4 and T6 are still alot of fun, but they don't feel like they have evolved much since their original iterations.

Hideki Kamiya could probably bring alot to a 3D fighting game. He could also royally overdo it to the point of seizure inducing style.

Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2010, 06:45:24 pm »
No they're still fine. I'm saying though that 3D fighters don't need an action game top down camera angle in general. that is automatically a failure. Other games have tried it and it's just over the top crap. DMC, control scheme or not, in the end would look like Dissidia. If you watched someone play it without knowing than it would look like that. again your most games are all trash games that aren't really 3D. like naruto, bloody roar, fate unlimited codes etc... it's 2D with an R1 button for side stepping.  Soul Calibur is the best 3D game because it has the flawless 8wayrun system.  Virtua Fighter sorta the same.  But yes Tekken is the same as the 2D games with R1 buttons except overly complicated in how you side step.

What is infant to you anyway? 2D fighters have been around since 80s and 3d since early 90s. One is 23 and the i other 16.

Offline Solidus

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2010, 07:46:37 pm »
No they're still fine. I'm saying though that 3D fighters don't need an action game top down camera angle in general. that is automatically a failure. Other games have tried it and it's just over the top crap. DMC, control scheme or not, in the end would look like Dissidia. If you watched someone play it without knowing than it would look like that. again your most games are all trash games that aren't really 3D. like naruto, bloody roar, fate unlimited codes etc... it's 2D with an R1 button for side stepping.  Soul Calibur is the best 3D game because it has the flawless 8wayrun system.  Virtua Fighter sorta the same.  But yes Tekken is the same as the 2D games with R1 buttons except overly complicated in how you side step.

What is infant to you anyway? 2D fighters have been around since 80s and 3d since early 90s. One is 23 and the i other 16.

I didn't say anything about a camera angle, where are you getting that? Even though those Naruto games are simplistic mechanically, I would say that Ultimate Ninja Storm (which I have only played briefly) is much closer to a pure 3D fighter than Tekken or SC. SC has 8 way run yes, but it is far from flawless, jumping is unrefined, dodging heavily is restricted, don't get me wrong I think SC is fun, but it really sticks to 2D conventions very closely, and where it doesn't it stumbles. Of course the opposite problem is found in games like Battle Arena Toshinden, 3D movement is so unrefined its just people running around on a plane spamming crap.. Perhaps the problem is the traditional fighter camera view, it does restrict 3D movement and jumping very dramatically when moves are built around 2D fighting systems like they are in SC, forcing cameras into strange perspectives. In Bayonetta for instance, the combo system verges on the complexity of a 2D fighter, but is implemented in a 3D world where the player has massive control over direction and speed of jumps and dodges, the camera is 3rd person dynamic follow, but fixed camera would also be feasible, top down is not really a staple for many games except "top down" shooters, in a sense, the 2D fighter view that most 3D fighters put themselves in is closer to "top down" than any 3D action game, even bad ones.

I also am beginning to doubt you have actually played Devil May Cry, as your references to Disddia and top down camera angles (DMC1 has fixed camera angles) seem to have no relation to the game. We all know that Square-Enix can't make an action game to save their lives, so comparing one of their forays into action to the progenitor of the "stylish action" genre, DMC that derives its control scheme out of the seminal 3D action game, Zelda: Ocarina of Time doesn't make much sense, Dissidia doesn't pull much from either of those, the camera is crazy, there are mundane quicktime events modeled after FF6/7/8 limit breaks, and of course they are fighting in the air, not on a plane, so none of the conventions of 3D combat in DMC or Zelda can actually be applied. In fact, the problems that Disddia has with control and camera because of its weird perspective and environments are the same in kind that developers of 3D fighters like Namco refuse to address by going the "safe" route and pretty much making their fighters 2D with a few 3D options.

Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2010, 06:38:57 am »
You don't have to say anything about the camera for me to bring it up.  And no the 8wayrun system is what's flawless, the game as a whole, although it is my favorite 3D game, still has problems as do all games. And no DMC has a set camera as you play through separate areas of a larger area and only moves and pans to follow you or your target or constantly if you're going down a hallway and such, zoomed out to see multiple enemies on screen. That in general isn't going to work in a technical fighting game. And unfortunately this means we're going into Ultimate Ninja Storm style or Dissidia style or Tenkaichi style or Power Stone Style, ALL of which fail in a serious two person fighting game for whatever reason. UNS, Dissidia and Tenkaichi are super flashy and very little is required for combos and such and there's no substance to the actual combat. The Camera in all of them focus more on 1 person and not the other, even though it switches around this is not going to work under any circumstance for any technical fighter.  Power Stone Style is campy and fun but it poses similar issues just for being so zoomed out.  The only way to allow full view of both characters is to have a side shot of the 2, which is why we do it like so, because it allows so much more to be done on a smaller scale. The only way UNS style works is if at all times the opponents are playing on two separate tvs, where each one focuses on them, which could be done laglessly if we made it a korean/japanese style arcade cabinet and such but that is the only way. Split screening the fight is also a stupid idea.

And the combat again is not why I was referencing Dissidia, and the game takes place all over the place, air and ground so it's still relevant to what I was talking about with camera. Of course i've played DMC I own all three and Bayonetta and they're all sitting here in front of my TV as they always do.

Offline Solidus

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2010, 04:20:48 pm »
Split screening in a single screen may be annoying, but most modern multiplayer games provide each player with a full screen, perhaps giving each person his own screen with his own perspective is the ideal for 3D fighting. I would also say that Soul Caliber lacks the level of depth and technicality that something like TvC or BlazBlue, primarily because of the problem of controlling a character in 3D, 8 way run was coined nearly a decade ago, 3D fighters shouldnt even be thinking in terms of moving in 8 directions, but rather 360 degrees, this is one of the things that makes me think that 3D fighters have such a long way to go, as 3D games in general have evolved in leaps and bounds over 10 years, soul caliber and other 3D fighters seem to be stuck in the 90s.

Offline X_A

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2010, 05:15:38 pm »

The Naruto games I've seen are full of trash development and horrible infinites, etc - if the JP don't even care about the games, that's a bad sign.

8wr doesn't allow for running away without punishment.  It also does feel stuck in a way - stuck in the mindset of a one on one intense battle, not some "this is where I instantly sprint backwards as fast as you can run forwards" like many fighting games...

...if you can run away as fast as I can run to you, your game sucks.  I'm sorry, turtling and spacing is bad enough without adding identical sprint / running away speeds.


I've studied up on GGXX, and several versions of 2D's before TvC and BB with serious intent of adopting the games, and I doubt they've changed too much; so while I'll admit they toned down SC4 a bit, I believe for every "level of depth and technicality" you can bring out for one of your 2d, I can match pound for pound in SC2 and 3.  Just because YOU don't know it exists, doesn't mean it's not there.

2G.  25G. 
RCC.  iFC, iWS.
Stripping, clash and priority that some will NEVER understand.
AG/RG - not SC4.
Just frames, frame based inputs vs mashing, etc.



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Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2010, 09:33:31 pm »
All I have to say here is that your game Solidus is no longer a fighting game but a multiplayer action game that will be flashy, over the top, stupid and not fit for tournament play. Especially if it's split screen. SUCH AS UNS, Dissidia, Tenkaichi etc... Those games can be considered fighting for the genre but the reason they're so looked down upon is because they offer NO depth of any kind into the world of fighters.

This is where I laugh, TvC technical? TvC takes less skill to learn than any (serious) 3D fighter i've ever played, including DoA. Like any game there will be great people playing it and a difference in skill as a person but almost any fighting gamer that's attempted to play seriously can pick TvC up and be a threat, mostly because of the simplified controls and easy full life combos with half the cast. Now i'm not saying it's a one shot deal to do, it's just much easier than most games out there.

Like any game, spacing, timing, reflexes are all needed to do well, 3D fighters have all of this as well as 2D, 3D fighters offers more diverse way around moves and strategies than 2D fighters do just because of the 3 dimensional plain. And that's wrong, at no point do the games need to be able to freely run around in 360 degrees as freely as changing direction on the controller/stick. That would automatically deplete it's ability as a fighter.

2D fighters have gotten flashier over the years but it's core is the same, BB didn't change that much from GG in fact it's also easier in the technical aspects. the SF games haven't changed at all over the years other than basic gimmicks that change how you space and defend. Same with KoF blah blah blah. They're all stuck in their style, in their genre because the core aspect of it is the best aspect we've found in true competetive fighting games. Same with 3D.

Offline Michael Jackson

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2010, 02:19:11 pm »
therrs a lot of txt in hurrr lol

Offline mooshie

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2010, 07:04:44 pm »
Don't hate on DoA.  The game is very simple, but flashy and has different types of fighting styles like Tekken.  Also, boobs and panties shots.

Offline Bees McGee

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2010, 07:39:56 pm »
Also, boobs and panties shots.

this is important

Offline Animefreak6969

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2010, 07:44:07 pm »
Also, boobs and panties shots.

this is important

Tekken has this too btw. Soul Calibur too.

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2010, 12:40:27 am »

*hates on DOA here, as he was just playing it earlier*

When the "pros" will even tell you that at a high level MATCH VICTORY comes down to LUCK more than SKILL, yes, I will make fun of DOA.

When all you have to do is spam reversals in DOA 2 for the win, and do more damage than hits?  Yes, I will make fun of DOA.

When you jump in DOA 4, and are COMPLETELY OFF THE GROUND, but a SWEEP HITS YOU?  Yes, I will make fun of DOA.


To each their own of course, but people try and make fun of my games, so spread the love to this game too :)  Fond memories are one thing, but reality still should be observed.

SC3 sucked, T4 sucked, and so did DOA4 :)

Now, let's all observe the common bond we share - the love of fighting games.  And focus our hate on the real enemy - LARPing!  *runs*



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Offline Solidus

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2010, 08:20:53 am »
I think in alot of ways I prefer the original soul caliber to all the others (with the exception of playing link..just for fun) does anyone still play that?

Offline mooshie

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2010, 09:26:33 am »
Also, boobs and panties shots.

this is important

Tekken has this too btw. Soul Calibur too.

In terms of bust size and bounce it goes like this.  DOA > SC > Tekken.

Offline Solidus

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Re: Fighting Gamers - What game REALLY has the largest community? (uh ohes)
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2010, 10:39:12 am »
Also, boobs and panties shots.

this is important

Tekken has this too btw. Soul Calibur too.

In terms of bust size and bounce it goes like this.  DOA > SC > Tekken.

And in terms of just size and bounce...it goes like this