Author Topic: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?  (Read 7970 times)

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Offline Michael Jackson

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 02:44:28 am »
So check it out.

Soul Calibur is having a few more big tournaments, however they've all AS A COMMUNITY banned Hilde as she was giving SC4 players fits in the same way MK does to SSBB. (Not because she was an insurmountable problem, but because she was the equivalent of SSBBs MK in that you have to change how you play completely and train specifically for her).

This decision was made to keep the tourney going community happy, however this wasn't just a isolated regional thing, this was agreed upon by quite a few areas before making it a standard for all upcoming tournaments.

SSBB's community uses what ruleset?  Allowing MK?  Then I would say, as a third party, you should allow him.

Don't want to travel and/or don't CARE about people who travel? (either traveling in or out)  Then make whatever ruleset you think is the best. (BOWSER ONLY, ONE ON ONE, NO ITEMS, FINAL DESTINATION)

Bear in mind if you do make your own banning MK rule you're shooting yourself in the foot as far as people who play SSBB outside of OK are concerned.  You won't get people coming in for tournies (hypothetical: "They ban MK? hahahaha... guess who has two thumbs and isn't going to THAT tournament?  THIS GUY~!!!!") , and you won't get people who are fully prepared to travel out to tournies.

Just think about what you want here in Tulsa.

Conform to the community standard and continue down the path you're currently on (losing people because they don't want to have to deal with MK but adhering to the community standard and staying on the 'national SSBB map' so to speak).
[ - ] Locals, [ + ] Travelers

Ban MK and possibly lose out on the whole 'being an active part of the community' thing (losing outside people due to not wanting to travel to a tourney due to wonky rules, but attract the 'ol locals back).
[ + ] Locals, [ - ] Travelers

...and to help you decide I have THE MOST METAL PICTURE EVER:

« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 02:47:24 am by Michael Jackson »

Offline Chozo

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 11:41:09 am »
...NEXT conversation - that HORRIBLE SBR NEW RULE SET?!  REALLY - those stages.  Are you guys crazy?

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Aww, come on, I want to play on Yoshi's Island Melee... :P lol
In all seriousness, BBR just wants to give TOs more freedom as far as stage choice, since I'm sure a lot of casuals who play for fun are kind of turned off by a 12 stage list like what's used on the East Coast. Personally, I'd really like Brawl to shake off the Smash Bros stereotype set by Melee: No items, Fox only, Final Destination! It makes it look like the competitive community doesn't like to have fun, when it's quite the opposite--we make rules that make the game more fun to play. In a tournament setting, we want the player with the most skill to win, and our competitive spirit makes us want to be that player, thus taking the game to a higher level.
Also, BBR is finally going with their policy of "don't ban it without reason" instead of just banning anything the top players feel is "gay." Top players like being on top, and are against anything that might knock them down a peg. A wider stagelist can force players into knowing more playstyles and being forced to use them on different stages.

As far as neutrals go, I'm actually in favor of a five stage starter list that does not include FD.
The CPs are alright, although I probably wouldn't play with Pirate Ship or Japes, and maybe even without YIM or PTAD (although I have yet to see major a problem with those two).

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 06:58:43 pm »

Fun to me is a safe enviroment for a new player to enter into - and not get handled like a hockey puck...

If we st ick with neutral style "non-gay' stages haha - then that's okay.  We have one, MAYBE TWO "fun" stages - that they can learn to ban?  And it's all good.

Walk offs, infinite walls, and stages that get more kills than the players - don't fit in that rule set.

If the SBR really want TO's to have more choices - that's great.  I choose to stick with the old rules, or add that STUPID MLG level, and call it done; as making people play on stages that may kill them faster than their opponent will?  Does not = Fun imo.

OLD / Current OKgamers rules - http://www.okgamers.com/pdf/ssbb-rules.pdf

MLG's rules for first MLG event, that to my knowledge haven't changed - http://pro-circuit.mlgpro.com/pro-circuit/2010/orlando/super-smash-bros-brawl-1v1/rules-settings


IN THE END?  MLG moves around "Starter stages" to include more counter picks right off, and adds GREENS GREENS.  Which - already having a horrible stage for large characters in the lineup - Brinstar - this seems just insulting hahah.  But - MLG is the way to go har har, so - we officially adopt?  Add more like SBR evidently wants to?

ARGUMENT TO ADOPT MORE STAGES = START!



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Offline Chozo

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2010, 12:46:13 am »
Going down the complete list of "available" stages~

Stages that can kill you:
Halberd's bombs and claw
Castle Siege transitions
Frigate Orpheon transitions
Brinstar's acid
Norfair's lava
Jungle Japes' klap trap
Green Greens' blocks
Pirate Ship's bombs and flipper
PTAD's cars

Stages with walk-offs:
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Rainbow Cruise
Distant Planet
Yoshi's Island (Melee)

The safest environment for new players to enter into doesn't involve starting on Castle Seige, Halberd, Delphino, or Final Destination, IMO...
Adding stages can never hurt, especially since they probably won't even get used anyway. Or maybe that's a reason not to add them... idk.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 04:40:20 pm by Chozo »

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 04:17:43 pm »
The safest environment for new players to enter into doesn't involve starting on Castle Seige, Halberd, Delphino, or Final Destination, IMO...
Adding stages can never hurt, especially since they probably won't even get used anyway. Or maybe that's a reason not to add them... idk.

Most of the starter stages are pretty 'neutral' - because of that not killing off people - imo at least.

Counter picks - are when the issues start.  And I'm sorry, but I've both BEEN the new player, and watched new players taken to stages where "oh, they don't pick that much" turns into "wow, I just lost a tournament because I've never played there".  Unless we are hampering an entire character or set of characters not allowing a stage, why add more troubles for people? (unless say a neighboring state is using it a lot, then yea, we should add it...)  The last list OKgamers fully supported - pre-MLG - it was Pirate Ship maybe, or Brinstar for me for sure lol - that you banned.  If you were playing MK - Rainbow Cruise...

...now?  Greens Greens.  Period.   Get Brinstar, your just yea... 

I shudder to think of adding MORE horrid stages with walk offs and random glitches, and man, you only GET one ban.  "The Devil you know" afterall.



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Offline Chozo

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2010, 05:22:07 pm »
(unless say a neighboring state is using it a lot, then yea, we should add it...)

Dallas, the main source of OoS showings (or is it KS? I'm not sure) has been using the MLG ruleset all summer, and the feedback has been all positive from what I've seen. I don't know of anybody who would pick Green Greens, but if they did then the more power to 'em. MK and Snake don't want to go there, Falco sure as ♥♥♥♥♥ doesn't, Diddy might, and Oli is the only one that does exceptionally well on that stage. Having been a new player from last July until about March, I can honestly say that I only ever wanted to play on neutrals anyway. There was no CP that I wanted to end up on, and RC was my most dreaded. I don't think that new players are worried about any which CP they go to, but rather whether they go to a CP.
tl;dr version -- To new players, all CPs are gay.

I'm for a 16 stage list, which encompasses the BBR's recommended Starters and CP groups 1&2, but replacing Japes with Greens.

Offline cravix

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2010, 10:03:11 am »
I dont play SSBB, so all i can say is maybe instead of taking the policy of banning MK, you should take the policy that if someone plays as MK People who are not participating in the match gets to mess with them. Ya know yell, scream, throw pepper in their face. But hey I would rather play Tekken myself
 
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Offline Solidus

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2010, 11:09:38 am »
Maybe Brawl is killing the SSBB community, lets play Melee.

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2010, 05:46:02 pm »
Maybe Brawl is killing the SSBB community, lets play Melee.

Maybe Metaknight is the only thing wrong with SSBB, while Melee's issues are all still very present :)

Let's play [email protected]  :)



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Offline Solidus

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2010, 01:52:12 am »
I'm now convinced everything you post about smash is a troll. lol
64 is the ♥♥♥♥ though, me and Zinth went through a phase over the summer of playing it for about 2 months.

Offline AfroTastic

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 07:13:50 pm »
PIKCAHOOOOOOOOOO!

0 death combo.

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2010, 05:44:10 am »
It's all that's left when it comes to smash?

Norman - doesn't want to support Brawl from what I've seen lately.  And if they want to go back, why stop at Melee?  :)
Tulsa - several of the key players go from wanting to play to not lol, so dunno.


As for not taking it seriously - I'm pretty sure I hold the "Thrown the Most Smash Events in OK EVAR" award from the last 5 or so years of OKgamers...  So while I obviously care about supporting the community, and seeing the game enjoyed - even I get to be annoyed by the lack of decisions and the running off effect.

Fighters = current game.

Can't run off to hacks (which will never be supported), old versions (which have been left behind), etc.  If you hate the game - that's one thing, but don't try and confuse things worse by doing that.  My opinion at least.



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Offline Solidus

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2010, 01:20:06 pm »
Norman supports Brawl, and for the most part people aren't "going back" but rather never left Melee. Although I think the fact that Oh Snap (the largest Smash tournament series in OK to my knowledge) was kinda switched over to brawl with no mention of Melee and without consideration of the original organizers was shocking. I don't think we support banning meta knight in larger tournament series, MLG, and many SWF TOs tend not to hold that position. Norman of course has a vibrant Melee community that we continue to nurture, and I would love to see that community extend to Tulsa. I've been asked a couple of times about Tulsa Melee players and I honestly couldn't name any active ones. We are currently working to build bridges between the two communities, I would like to see smash as a single community, and not a series of disparately connected scenes.

Oh Snap 6 this January will include Brawl, Melee, AND 64! Also mind you that at our last Melee tourney (Intimikill II) we had excellent out of state turnout AND a Smash 64 mini-tourney (which I won, woot!)

I hope to have OKgamers promotional support for that tourney, even though we won't be asking you to host. Personally, I'd be more inclined to ban FD and its broken nooks than metaknight ^_-. The ruleset is currently being discussed among a number of smash scene ppl this week and will probably center around Whobo/Apex-ish rules.

Melee (And perhaps brawl) power rankings happening soon as well so keep in touch.

I'd also say that current games have more turnout simply because more scrubs own a copy. EVO still hosts SFIII Third strike, and if I recall they hosted Melee as well. So I wouldn't count those out, they've been placed in the pantheon of timeless fighting games with long lasting healthy communities.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 01:26:09 pm by Solidus »

Offline Solidus

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2010, 03:08:06 pm »
I also think a good alternative to flat out banning Meta Knight is simply to have more active "low tier" or "no top tier" tournaments, that allow people to play with characters they may specialize in but really don't have much of a chance against even a mid-level snake, or meta knight. From my perspective, if you ban MK, then you just get a bunch of snakes, and ppl want to ban snake, or falco or DeDeDe on and on.

I really like these in Melee because I can be Young Link. Brawl...well you know...maybe I could be that fiesty Pokemon Trainer or perhaps Ike!

I <3 low tier tourneys, lets do some.

Offline Relish

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Re: SSBB players - Should OKgamers take the policy of BANNING MK?
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2010, 10:22:03 am »
Banning metaknight is a stupid solution for people who can't learn matchups... As a site trying to hold competetive tournaments look at every other tournament... metaknight is allowed... allow metaknight, if people who play brawl go to play and win then they should know matchups and be good enough to beat metaknight or they should lose to metaknight... this coming from a non metaknight main...
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